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Defining Conservatism & Liberalism

topic posted Tue, October 21, 2008 - 12:28 PM by  ScreamBrian
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Hi everyone! We are having a gathering this Sunday in Santa Monica (10-26-08; see the event listing nearby on this tribe page). I hope to see you there! Whether or not you come to Sunday's meeting, feel free to carry on a discussion by posting your own ideas here, either before or after Sunday's meeting.

Here's the "official" wording of this very timely topic, which was the winner of the email voting this week:



THE LIBERAL VERSUS CONSERVATIVE WAY OF THINKING AND VALUING: what are the philosophies that underlie liberal and conservative political positions? As the elections loom, let's analyze and define, as fairly and impartially as we can, the core differences (as well as similarities) between how liberals and conservatives in our country think and value.

Is it even possible to define the views of each? It may be that the beliefs and values that go under the label of either "liberal" or "conservative" are so varied that no through-line can tie them together. And, it's likely that most people hold inconsistent views and/or a mixture of liberal and conservative views. Nonetheless, many thinkers believe they've captured the lion's share of the underlying logic of each political position. Several people from our group have sent me links to a particularly interesting collection of mini-essays on the matter, each with differing answers. Let's read what they've come up with and see if we can agree on definitions of liberal and conservative views and values.

I want to stress that the point of the discussion is not to focus on the personality traits you think the typical conservative or liberal (or Democrat or Republican) has. It goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway) that this is also not an opportunity to rail against your political opponents, advocate your favored policies and candidates, or talk about the thoughts or values of any particular political figure.
-----------------------------------

See you Sunday!

Brian
posted by:
ScreamBrian
Los Angeles
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  • Re: Defining Conservatism & Liberalism

    Tue, October 21, 2008 - 8:09 PM
    A few points to note about Sunday's discussion of the topic. Let's focus on the political situation in the U.S. in the last few decades, to keep the discussion from getting too broad and unfocused; the topic is already such a large one. Few of us, in any case, have adequate knowledge of liberalism and conservatism in other countries or long ago in this country.

    Also, by "liberal," we are certainly not referring to those on the far left, like communists, socialists, or radicals (those who favor fundamental, drastic or revolutionary changes in society). Similarly, by "conservative," we are not talking about totalitarians or reactionaries, who oppose all change in society except for a wholesale return to a (real or imagined) previous time, usually one long ago. Rather, we want to elucidate the philosophical underpinnings of the views the usual American liberal and conservative subscribes to (whether or not many of them can articulate those underpinnings).

    In addition, a fair and impartial description of, say, "how conservatives think and value," would not, I think, be what liberals typically think conservatives stand for. It's also not necessarily what conservatives themselves typically think they stand for, though that's probably closer to the mark. The same, of course, goes for a fair and impartial description of "how liberals think and value."

    Lastly, instead of focusing only on the differences between the liberal and conservative positions, let's also try to identify areas of overlap and agreement.
    ---------


    FYI, here are the full vote-by-email results for the month. Never before has one topic received more votes than all the others combined:

    1) Is Science Converging On The Truth? (11.75 Votes)
    2) The Liberal Versus Conservative Way Of Thinking And Valuing (48.0 Votes)
    3) "A Foolish Consistency Is The Hobgoblin Of Little Minds…" (13.5 Votes)
    4) Who Deserves Charity? (10.0 Votes)
    5) How Important Is It For Us To Be A Space-Faring Civilization? (6.75 Votes)

    Each topic stays on the list until it wins or consistently receives a paltry number of votes. You may have noticed that the votes do not come in whole numbers. This is not because fractions of a person turn in votes, but because you receive one vote for your top choice, a half vote for your 2nd choice (if you had one), a quarter vote for your 3rd choice, and so on.
    • Re: Defining Conservatism & Liberalism

      Tue, October 21, 2008 - 8:14 PM
      Here's one approach to defining Liberalims vs. Conservatism. This is one of the "optional readings" for our discussion this Sunday. It's an excerpt and summary of James Burnham's analysis of the American Conservative and Liberal "syndromes," from his book in the late 1950s, "Congress and the American Tradition." Unlike the other readings I found, this one is a bit dated, though still valuable, brief, and to the point. It also offers a view of how liberal and conservative views have drifted since the mid twentieth century. I couldn't find it online, but someone in our group emailed it to me, so I pasted it all here:


      The Conservative Syndrome and the Liberal Syndrome


      1. Conservatives believe that government involves a non-rational factor. Without allowance for magic, luck, or divine favor, there is no convincing explanation for why one government works better than another. There is no rational explanation for why one person should submit to the rule of another's absent habit, tradition, or faith. But without such submission, government dissolves or relies on force, which is nonrational. The conservative distrusts abstract political ideology as a principle or formula for political life.

      Liberals have general confidence in the ability of the human mind to comprehend through rational science problems of government and society, and they often trust in a particular ideology as a key to a successful government.

      2. Conservatives believe that human nature is essentially corrupt, or evil, and is limited in its potential; therefore, conservatives do not believe in utopian or ultimate solutions to major social problems.

      Liberals believe that most human weaknesses and error are the result of weak social structure or inadequate education, for human potential, if not infinite, has no discernible a priori limitations; therefore, it is not unrealistic for humans to work toward an ideal society in which problems such as war, poverty, and suffering do not exist.

      3. Conservatives respect tradition, established institutions, and conventional modes of conduct. They are reluctant to initiate quick or deep changes in traditional ways, and seek to restrict or slow the pace of changes that have become unavoidable or morally imperative.

      Liberals do not believe tradition alone justifies favoring an institution or mode of conduct; and they are willing to accept quick, drastic, and extensive social changes based on rational and utilitarian grounds.

      4. Conservatives believe in a diffusion of "sovereignty" and governmental power, thus honoring the "separation of powers" and "checks and balances" envisioned by the Constitution.

      Liberals think that diffusion of power may be useful against "reactionary forces" but are not much troubled by most power's in the hands of beneficial social entities (the common man, the people, workers, and farmers) and will waive concerns about power altogether for certain ideological goals (full employment, racial equality, social welfare, or peace).

      5. Conservatives reject unrestricted plebiscitary (direct election by all the people) democracy in favor of representative government in which a number of indirect institutions mediate between the people and those in charge.

      Liberals tend to approve of plebiscitary democracy, seeking forms of government that express the will of the majority as directly and intimately as possible (e.g., direct popular elections for president, direct primaries, initiative and recall, popular referendums, election of judges, extension of suffrage, and the like).

      6. Conservatives believe in "states' rights," or the retention by each state of an effective share of the federal Government's sovereignty, because this diffuses power.

      Liberals see "states' rights" as either unimportant (an anachronism) or inefficient, for it leads to reactionary policies like pro-segregation, anti-labor, and anti-internationalist measures.

      7. Conservatives believe in the autonomy of the various branches of the federal government, and oppose encroachment or usurpation by any of them upon the other branches. Liberals think that strict separation of the branches of government hinders government's ability to solve major problems.

      8. Conservatives believe the public should support limiting government powers. Liberals think the public should support greater government power to accomplish progressive goals.

      9. Conservatives feel that the American constitutional system embodies principles of clear and permanent value. Liberals hold that the Constitution is a living document, with its meaning dependent on time and circumstances.

      10. Conservatives want decentralization and localization of government. Liberals think that decentralization and localization can hinder solutions to modern problems.

      11. Conservatives believe private, profit-making enterprises are the most just and effective means for economic operation and development.

      Liberals are critical of private economic enterprise, and believe in government control of private activities, if not some measure of government ownership. They find private enterprises are frequently opposed to the interests of the people and the nation, and that, in many cases, the government can do a better job than private enterprise.

      12. Conservatives hold that the private life of the individual, as opposed to the destiny of the nation or of society, should be the focus of metaphysical, moral, and practical interest.

      Liberals feel that an expanding sphere of government involvement ---in social and cultural life as well as in the economy ---results in the best mode of life for people. Thus, expansion of government activity aids in attainment of a good life.

      13. Conservatives favor Congress over the executive branch of government. Liberals favor the executive branch, with its administrative bureaucracy, over Congress.
      • Re: Defining Conservatism & Liberalism

        Tue, October 21, 2008 - 8:17 PM
        AS ALWAYS, I CAME UP WITH A LIST OF OPTIONAL READINGS for the discussion Sunday (and online, at any time).

        I have far more than the usual number of optional readings this time, though most are short pieces that can be consumed in a few minutes. I came across many worthwhile articles, political quizzes and audio downloads on the matter, each with different and often conflicting approaches. I highly encourage you to inspire and clarify your thinking on the ideas and debates by reading, skimming or listening to any or all of the following. Don't feel that you need to go through all of them-- though you get extra kudos if you do so-- but do read at least a few of them.



        1. www.edge.org/3rd_culture...8_index.html The "Edge" website has again elicited a collection of mini-essays on a great issue, this time on the differences between liberal and conservative moral and political thinking and feeling. The lead essay is by Moral Psychology researcher Jonathan Haidt. At the bottom of the page, click on the "continue" button to see the eight or so short responses to Haidt's essay, by Daniel Everett, Howard Gardner, Michael Shermer, Scott Atran, James Fowler, Alison Gopnik, Sam Harris, and James O'Donnell. Most of these writers are coming from the liberal position, though they are attempting to be impartial, for the most part. Related to Haidt's essay is his online test that shows you where you land on the political spectrum, and why (according to his theory). Go to www.yourmorals.org/explore.php and click on the first test, the "Moral Foundations Questionnaire." After the "5-10 minute test" (which took me 15 minutes), you receive your score and a short explanation of the theory and research behind it. The basic idea is that your approach to morality determines how you fall on the liberal-conservative spectrum. If you plan to take this short test, I recommend you do so before reading the above essays from the "Edge" website, so you don't contaminate your results.


        2. www.kirkcenter.org/kirk/ten...ples.html "Ten Conservative Principles," a brief summary of the philosophy of Conservatism, according conservative thinker Russell Kirk.


        3. From Wikipedia, two very short excerpts of entries. First, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism#Trends this is the "Trends" section (the most relevant and succinct part) of the Wikipedia article on Liberalism. Second, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cons...of_thought this is the "Development of Thought" section (again, the most relevant and succinct part) of the Wikipedia article on Conservatism.


        4. philosophy-in-la.tribe.net/thre...4745b An excerpt and summary of James Burnham's analysis of the American Conservative and Liberal "syndromes," from his book in the late 1950s, "Congress and the American Tradition." Unlike the other readings I found, this one is a bit dated, though still valuable, brief, and to the point. It also offers a view of how liberal and conservative views have drifted since the mid twentieth century. I couldn't find it online, but someone in our group emailed it to me, so I posted it on our club's website.


        5. If you want to listen on your computer or download the audio file to your mp3 player, I have two good programs from the "Philosophy talk" radio show (KZSU 90.1 FM in Stanford). The first is www.philosophytalk.org/pastSh...ed.html "We've Been Framed: How Language Shapes Politics" (an interview with Linguist Geoffrey Nunberg). Includes a page of notes and a 54 minute audio (but hey, 54 minutes takes no time at all if you're driving). The second is philosophytalk.org/pastShow...gSci.html "Politics and Cognitive Science" (an interview with Linguist, Cognitive Scientist and Progressive political theorist George Lakoff). It also includes a page of notes and a 45-minute audio. Each radio program costs $2.95 to listen online or to download.


        6. www.rockridgeinstitute.org/proj...ming/ Also by Linguist and Cognitive Scientist George Lakoff, he briefly summarizes his basic ideas on conservative and liberal/ progressive metaphors for how we all think and value, based on differing notions of how the family should be run. He definitely has strong preference for the progressive political position


        7. For a longer but definitely interesting reading, I have three linked pieces, all appearing in The New Republic online in 2006. The first, www.powells.com/review/2006_10_19 is Evolutionary Psychologist Steven Pinker's scathing review of Linguist/ Cognitive Scientist George Lakoff's book on the different metaphors liberals and conservatives think by, "Whose Freedom?: The Battle over America's Most Important Idea." The second, www.powells.com/biblio is Lakoff's response to Pinker's review of his book and his entire political philosophy. In the third, blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/o...4/60751.aspx Linguist Geoffrey Nunberg weighs in on the Lakoff versus Pinker debate. Besides delving into the philosophy behind liberal and conservative values and thought, it demonstrates how easily people with different political and philosophical views misunderstand each other and/or believe others are misunderstanding them.


        8. www.electoralcompass.com another political test, and a short explanation of the test makers' ideas on the liberal-conservative political spectrum. It asks you many questions about specific political issues and candidates, and places you on a two-dimensional chart. The idea is that liberalism and conservatism are best explained as being composed of two, independent dimensions, an "economic left" versus "economic right" dimension and a "socially liberal (progressive)" versus "socially conservative (traditional)" dimension. On your results page, click on the pencil symbol at your position on the chart, it tells you how you compare to all the candidates in the primaries. Click on the FAQ option to get a simple explanation of their system, though they unfortunately don't explain it in terms of general principles or philosophies, but by the typical positions on issue taken by people on various locations on their chart.
        • Re: Defining Conservatism & Liberalism

          Thu, November 27, 2008 - 3:00 PM
          The Left are liberal in favoring a redistribution of wealth toward greater equality, but conservative in supporting preservation of the natural environment and of the lives and health of the populace. The Right, mainly the rich, are conservative in supporting the continuation of unrestrained capitalism, essential to perpetuating and expanding the wealth disparity in their favor, despite the resultant harm to the environment and the well-being of the people; in their willingness to sacrifice which desiderata, they (the Right) are liberal. It seems to me that what the Right are really interested in preserving is their own advantage, and that, to the extent to which conservatism is a principle and not a pretext, the true conservatives are the Left.

          – Richard J. Eisner (11/27/2008; 1-818-343-0123; richard@1800suethem.com)
          • Re: Defining Conservatism & Liberalism

            Sat, November 29, 2008 - 10:00 PM
            Hey Richard,
            not sure what you meant in this part of your posting:

            "in their willingness to sacrifice which desiderata, they (the Right) are liberal"
            • Re: Defining Conservatism & Liberalism

              Tue, December 2, 2008 - 1:00 PM
              Hey Brian,

              In my (11-27-08) item, “liberal” denotes: Receptive to change. By “in their willingness to sacrifice which desiderata, they (the Right) are liberal”; I mean that deterioration of the environment and of the lives of the masses are changes to which the Right are open.

              – Richard J. Eisner (12/2/2008; 1-818-343-0123; richard@1800suethem.com)

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