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Hi everyone! We are having a gathering this Sunday in Santa Monica (3-16-08; see the event listing nearby on this tribe page). I hope to see you there! Whether or not you come to Sunday's meeting, feel free to carry on a discussion by posting your own ideas here, either before or after Sunday's meeting.
Here's the "official" wording of this topic, which was the winner of a very close vote by email this week:
IS IT POSSIBLE TO BE RATIONALLY PERSUADED TO CONVERT TO A RELIGION? It's often said that people accept their childhood religion, or convert to a new one, for reasons other than a rational appraisal of arguments and evidence. Is it ever rational to convert to a religion? Whether it is or not, some argue that one's religious choices don't need to be rationally justified, that such choices shouldn't primarily be a matter of intellectual justification. Decisions of this sort are, they say, akin to questions about one’s preferences for food, music, or jobs.
For the sake of the discussion, we'll focus on the usual notion of religion, i.e., religion based on supernatural beliefs. However, if you must, you can argue that it is reasonable to convert to a religion lacking in supernatural beliefs, for example, the reverence for or worship of nature, "Gaia," the big bang, etc. Though, it is arguable whether the supernatural is truly absent in these examples, or, if it is absent, that it could then be called "religion." We may discuss this as a side issue.
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For those interested, here are the full vote-by-email results for this month's topic:
1) Should Deaf Parents Be Allowed To Refuse To Cure The Deafness Of Their Children? (4.75 Votes)
2) Is Science Converging Upon The Truth, (20.75 Votes)
3) Is It Possible To Be Rationally Persuaded To Convert To A Religion? (24.25 Votes)
4) Why Is It Wrong To Pollute? What Is Pollution, Anyway? (7.0 Votes)
5) What Moral Obligations Do We Have To Obey The Laws And Legal Rulings Of Our Government? (24.0 Votes)
(You may have noticed that the votes do not come in whole numbers. This is not because fractions of a person turn in votes, but because you receive one vote for your top choice, a half vote for your 2nd choice (if you had one), a quarter vote for your 3rd choice, and so on.)
See you Sunday!
Brian
Here's the "official" wording of this topic, which was the winner of a very close vote by email this week:
IS IT POSSIBLE TO BE RATIONALLY PERSUADED TO CONVERT TO A RELIGION? It's often said that people accept their childhood religion, or convert to a new one, for reasons other than a rational appraisal of arguments and evidence. Is it ever rational to convert to a religion? Whether it is or not, some argue that one's religious choices don't need to be rationally justified, that such choices shouldn't primarily be a matter of intellectual justification. Decisions of this sort are, they say, akin to questions about one’s preferences for food, music, or jobs.
For the sake of the discussion, we'll focus on the usual notion of religion, i.e., religion based on supernatural beliefs. However, if you must, you can argue that it is reasonable to convert to a religion lacking in supernatural beliefs, for example, the reverence for or worship of nature, "Gaia," the big bang, etc. Though, it is arguable whether the supernatural is truly absent in these examples, or, if it is absent, that it could then be called "religion." We may discuss this as a side issue.
-----------------------------------
For those interested, here are the full vote-by-email results for this month's topic:
1) Should Deaf Parents Be Allowed To Refuse To Cure The Deafness Of Their Children? (4.75 Votes)
2) Is Science Converging Upon The Truth, (20.75 Votes)
3) Is It Possible To Be Rationally Persuaded To Convert To A Religion? (24.25 Votes)
4) Why Is It Wrong To Pollute? What Is Pollution, Anyway? (7.0 Votes)
5) What Moral Obligations Do We Have To Obey The Laws And Legal Rulings Of Our Government? (24.0 Votes)
(You may have noticed that the votes do not come in whole numbers. This is not because fractions of a person turn in votes, but because you receive one vote for your top choice, a half vote for your 2nd choice (if you had one), a quarter vote for your 3rd choice, and so on.)
See you Sunday!
Brian
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Re: Can one rationally convert to a religion?
Thu, March 13, 2008 - 4:38 PMIf you want to read something related to the topic, here are the "official" optional readings for Sunday's gathering:
OPTIONAL READINGS: note that our discussion focuses on the topic rather than specifically on the readings. However, if you'd like to inspire and stimulate your interest or thinking on the matter, or clarify the ideas and debates involved, or simply know what you're talking about, I found two articles for you to read or skim:
1. www.iep.utm.edu/r/relig-ep.htm
This overview article, "Religious Epistemology," is exactly on our topic. It's from The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, one of our usual sources of good articles.
2. plato.stanford.edu/entries/fideism/
This article, from the excellent Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, is on "Fideism," the philosophical position that "claims that truths of a certain kind can be grasped only by foregoing rational inquiry and relying solely on faith." If you don't want to read the entire article, the main idea is contained in sections 1 (one paragraph in length), 4 (two paragraphs), and 3 (four paragraphs). -
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Re: Can one rationally convert to a religion?
Thu, March 13, 2008 - 4:55 PMHere are a few interesting excerpts from one of the above articles (the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on "Fideism," the philosophical position that "claims that truths of a certain kind can be grasped only by foregoing rational inquiry and relying solely on faith." It's at plato.stanford.edu/entries/fideism/
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Fideism
First published Fri 6 May, 2005
“What indeed has Athens to do with Jerusalem?” (p. 246) This question of the relation between reason—here represented by Athens—and faith—represented by Jerusalem—was posed by the church father Tertullian (c.160-230 CE), and it remains a central preoccupation among contemporary philosophers of religion.
“Fideism” is the name given to that school of thought—to which Tertullian himself is frequently said to have subscribed—which answers that faith is in some sense independent of—if not outright adversarial toward—reason. In contrast to the more rationalistic tradition of natural theology, with its arguments for the existence of God, fideism holds that reason is unnecessary and inappropriate for the exercise and justification of religious belief. The term itself derives from fides, the Latin word for faith, and can be rendered literally as faith-ism. “Fideism” is thus to be understood not as a synonym for “religious belief,” but as denoting a particular philosophical account of faith's appropriate jurisdiction vis-a-vis that of reason.
1. A Formal Definition
2. A Brief History of “Fideism”
2.1 Sin, Skepticism, and Kant: Theological and Philosophical Roots
2.2 The Usual Suspects
2.2.1 Pascal
2.2.2 Kierkegaard
2.2.3 James
2.2.4 Wittgenstein
3. Tendentious Terminology
4. A Rational Fideism?
Bibliography
Other Internet Resources
Related Entries
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1. A Formal Definition
Alvin Plantinga has noted that fideism can be defined as an “exclusive or basic reliance upon faith alone, accompanied by a consequent disparagement of reason and utilized especially in the pursuit of philosophical or religious truth” (p. 87). Correspondingly, Plantinga writes, a fideist is someone who “urges reliance on faith rather than reason, in matters philosophical and religious” and who “may go on to disparage and denigrate reason” (p. 87). Notice, first, that what the fideist seeks, according to this account, is truth. Fideism claims that truths of a certain kind can be grasped only by foregoing rational inquiry and relying solely on faith. Insofar as fideism insists that knowledge of these truths is possible, it must be distinguished from various forms of skepticism with which it otherwise shares certain common features. Notice too that this definition is largely formal; the plausibility of fideism as a philosophical doctrine and the proper extension of the term will therefore depend on the content given to the terms “faith” and “reason.”
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3. Tendentious Terminology
One lesson to be gleaned from the preceding cases is that “fideism” is a term that is seldom self-applied. This is no doubt largely because it has come to function primarily as a term of abuse as opposed to a genuinely descriptive term. In this respect, its de facto role is similar to that played by terms like “relativism” and—perhaps—“anti-realism.” Such labels generally say at least as much about the philosophical commitments of those who use them as they do about the positions to which they are applied.
Popkin argues that the skepticism introduced into theology in the sixteenth century eventually led to the atheism and irreligious “free-thinking” of the Enlightenment. After all, Hume says essentially the same thing as the so-called fideists when he writes that “[o]ur most holy religion is founded on faith, not on reason” (p. 140), except that by the eighteenth century this had been transformed into an implicit—if not-so-subtle—criticism of religion. Thus, Hume proceeds to add that since “[m]ere reason is insufficient to convince us of its veracity…whoever is moved by faith to assent to [Christianity] is conscious of a continued miracle in his own person which subverts all the principles of his understanding and gives him a determination to believe what is most contrary to custom and experience” (p. 141). The irony here is hard to miss.
Hence, by the time the term “fideism” entered the philosophical vocabulary, the position it denoted was already highly suspect. In an Age of Reason, faith-ism is inevitably going to sound irrational. However, the conception of reason which the putative fideist is accused of transgressing is almost invariably one the latter would reject as insufficiently robust. Thus, the opposition to reason said to characterize fideism is perhaps better conceived as a rejection of a particular account of reason—one the so-called fideist regards as overly narrow and restrictive—or of the applicability to religion of a particular way of reasoning. To be sure, the thinkers described as “fideists” have sometimes expressed their objections in ways that contribute to the impression of irrationalism. Looked at from this point of view, however, it is the critic of fideism who fails to appreciate the irony with which the putative fideist uses the term “reason.” In effect, the putative fideist can generally more charitably be interpreted as claiming that it can be rational to refuse to subject certain of one's beliefs to what is popularly (though misleadingly, from the point of view of the putative fideist) called “reason.”
To generalize, what the thinkers labeled “fideists” have tended to find objectionable is not reason per se, but evidentialism—i.e., the doctrine (expressed forcefully by Clifford) that beliefs can be rational only if they are supported by evidence. Since evidentialism might otherwise seem to give rise to a regress problem, it is generally conjoined with some version of foundationalism which purports to delineate a criterion of “proper basicality”—i.e., a set of conditions under which beliefs can rationally be held without further evidential support. Whereas some putative fideists—like Pascal—argue that religious beliefs can be given non-evidential support, others can be interpreted as suggesting that such beliefs are themselves properly basic, or (as Plantinga has argued more recently) that no criterion of proper basicality that would exclude religious beliefs can itself be shown to be properly basic. Their contention in either case is that the believer can be rationally justified—or at least cannot be shown to be behaving irrationally—in holding certain beliefs, even if these beliefs themselves cannot be supported by evidence. Conceived of in this way, the putative fideist's position—though not uncontroversial—is hardly the brazenly paradoxical doctrine it might at first appear to be.
4. A Rational Fideism?
One of the most carefully argued contemporary defenses of fideism is C. Stephen Evans's book Faith Beyond Reason. Insofar as he applies the term “fideism” to his own position, Evans is rare among philosophers in his willingness to take up a gauntlet that is usually refused—even by those with views otherwise similar to his own. Evans attempts to rehabilitate—or rather habilitate—the term by distinguishing “responsible” forms of fideism from various irrationalistic alternatives. Whereas the latter pit faith directly against reason, the former contend that faith can appropriately take over where reason leaves matters of ultimate concern unresolved. Drawing on Kierkegaard's thought, Evans contends that while there are limits to reason, they are limits which it is reasonable for reason to acknowledge.
Like the Protestant Reformers, Evans suggests that the customary exercise of human reason is limited not merely by finitude but also by pride and self-centeredness. For this reason, faith and reason can find themselves in tension. For Evans, however, “faith is against reason only in the sense that it runs into conflict with a concrete form of reason that is damaged” (p. 153). Moreover, Evans insists that the defects in reason—though substantial—are nevertheless not such as to render us completely oblivious to them. Thus, he does not reject reason altogether. In his preferred terminology, faith is not so much against as beyond reason, since it is ultimately compatible, in his view, with a duly self-critical intellect. -
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Re: Can one rationally convert to a religion?
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 4:11 PMAt the 16 March 2008 meeting of the Philosophy Club, guest speaker Professor Juan Herrero advanced this argument (I paraphrase).
Like everything that is, the universe as a whole had a beginning, before which there was nothing. Something cannot come from nothing--except by magic. Therefore, the cosmos was created by an all-powerful magic being. At this, I asked Professor Herrero the following questions. If all things must be engendered, who made the magic being who made the universe? Or, if the magic being always existed, couldn't the cosmos, too, always have existed? In response to which queries, Professor Herrero explained that the metaphysical laws that govern reality do not govern the world of magic, and so in reality (or rather in magicland) the great magical being who created the universe always was . . . even when there was nothing, before the advent of something.
Professor Herrero went on to insist that his argument is rational. How so? Well, in the magic realm, logic works in mysterious ways.
– Richard J. Eisner (5/20/2008; 1-818-343-0123; rjeisner@ix.netcom.com) -
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Re: Can one rationally convert to a religion?
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 6:29 PMHow do you define reality and/or magicland ? How do you define something/nothing/being ? How do you define rational/mysterious ? -
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Re: Can one rationally convert to a religion?
Sun, August 31, 2008 - 3:26 PM[Typographical note: This web site does not accommodate italicization, for which I will substitute CAPITALIZATION.]
Following are my rebuttals to four arguments for God’s existence (the summaries of the theistic arguments are taken from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy).
I. Argument from Contingency (from the article “Cosmological Argument”)
“1. A contingent being exists (a contingent being is such that, if it exists, it can not-exist).
2. This contingent being has a cause or explanation of its existence.
3. The cause or explanation of its existence is something other than the contingent being itself.
4. What causes or explains the existence of this contingent being must either be solely other contingent beings or include a non-contingent (necessary) being.
5. Contingent beings alone cannot cause or explain the existence of a contingent being.
6. Therefore, what causes or explains the existence of this contingent being must include a non-contingent (necessary) being.
7. Therefore, a necessary being (a being which, if it exists, cannot not exist) exists.”
Rebuttal One: On one interpretation, the argument denies, not that contingent beings are caused solely by other contingent beings NOW (after all, we were begot by our parents), but rather that such contingent-contingent causation could go back forever. That is, allegedly there was a time when no contingent things were, and a necessary being was their (exclusive) cause (or the contingent universe as a whole was thus caused). Howbeit, because that which is necessary is and behaves the same in all possible worlds, if a necessary being causes a contingent being, it must do so in every possible universe. But this could not be, as there is a possible world without contingent beings (by definition of contingency). Hence, a necessary being cannot engender a contingent being, and, if God exists and he created man (a contingent being), God is not necessary.
Rebuttal Two: According to another interpretation, the sort of explanation demanded by the argument is the Principle of Sufficient Reason: “a FULL EXPLANATION, that is, an explanation that includes a causal account in terms of sufficient conditions and the reason why the cause had the effect it did.” Again, however, as there is a possible world with a necessary being but no contingent being, the former could not be a sufficient condition for the latter.
Interlude: If God exists, he could not be necessary, for the further reasons that necessary entities are abstract, not actual (there is a possible universe devoid of actual things); and, more particularly, God, by definition, is conscious, and consciousness is not a necessary element—there is a possible world without awareness (which is actual, not abstract). . . . An additional significance of God’s modality is this. Theists argue that, unlike the universe, God needs no explanation, because he is necessary, just as it would be senseless to ask why twice two is four (ergo, God’s non-necessity confronts theists anew with the question “Who created God?”).
Rebuttal Three: Some philosophers read the posited necessary being as, not LOGICALLY necessary, but “metaphysically” necessary. So construed, the argument’s fundamental artifice involves an equivocation on the word BEING, of which The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language gives essentially three meanings: 1 “The state or quality of having existence”; 2 “The totality of all things that exist”; and 3 “A person.” When the argument speaks of the contingent being that exists and needs a cause or explanation, any of the foregoing three senses of “being” is fit. But in the argument’s remarks about the necessary being that causes or explains, the first two definitions of being are appropriate (it seems not unreasonable to suppose that the cause or explanation of any contingent thing might include everything that is, or was, all elements, both contingent and “necessary”); but the third is not (it is a considerable leap, neither required nor supported by the argument’s premises, to suggest that an element that causes or explains contingent beings is person-like). In other words, all we are compelled to grant, if we assent to the argument’s assumptions, is that anything is explained by everything (whatever that encompasses), “being,” in the first and second senses of the term; whereas we are led to think we must accept the existence of “A being,” in the third sense: a cosmic sentient organism (God).
II. Conceptual Argument (from the article “Ontological Arguments”)
(Note: In this “ontological” argument, Saint Anselm refers to God as a being than which none greater can be conceived.) “Thus even the fool is convinced that something than which nothing greater can be conceived is in the understanding, since when he hears this, he understands it; and whatever is understood is in the understanding. And certainly that than which a greater cannot be conceived cannot be in the understanding alone. For if it is even in the understanding alone, it can be conceived to exist in reality also, which is greater. Thus if that than which a greater cannot be conceived is in the understanding alone, then that than which a greater cannot be conceived is itself that than which a greater can be conceived. But surely this cannot be. Thus without doubt something than which a greater cannot be conceived exists, both in the understanding and in reality.”
Rebuttal: The proof is defective in that, by the same logic, practically any nonexistent thing can be conceived into existence, as it were, such as the unicorn, thus: The greatest four-footed creature I can conceive of is a unicorn, which is in my understanding. And certainly the greatest conceivable four-footed animal cannot be in the understanding alone; for it can be conceived to exist in reality, which is greater. Hence if the greatest conceivable four-footed creature is in the understanding alone, then it is not the greatest conceivable one (which would instead be the real one). So the greatest conceivable four-footed beast—the unicorn—exists, both in my understanding and in reality.
Indeed, Anselm argues for the IMPOSSIBLE: a greatest conceivable being makes no more sense than a greatest conceivable number, or amount (whatever the magnitude, a greater is possible). (Moreover, incidentally, if we judge a creator by his work, surely we can conceive of a greater God, one who would not make a world ruled by misery, like the Earth.)
III. Definitional Argument (from the article “Ontological Arguments”)
“God is a being that has every perfection (by definition). Existence is a perfection. Hence God exists.”
Rebuttal: As with “conceptual” arguments, a problem here is that you can DEFINE almost anything, including that which does not, or even cannot, exist.
More specifically, though, nothing (no thing) can have every perfection, because certain perfections pertain only to certain kinds of things. For example, a perfect sonnet has fourteen lines, which perfection (having fourteen lines) presumably is not possessed by God. (And with respect to some traits that ARE relevant to God, such as the ability and inclination to create a happy world, God is not perfect, to say the least.) Further, existence could not be a perfection. If it were, we would have to say, for instance, of a severely flawed painting, that it is perfect, at least insofar as it exists, which is absurd. Nay, arguably, only abstract entities, not actual ones, are perfect. Thus the circle is a perfect form, but circular objects, like car tires, are not perfect circles.
On a related note, Descartes’s concept of a “supremely perfect being” is incoherent, since perfection is not a matter of degree. There is no ultimately perfect thing. Rather, there are an unlimited number of possible perfect, or nearly perfect, things of various degrees of greatness. If something is supreme, it is so in terms of a quality or qualities besides perfection.
In closing this part, I offer the following variation on the definitional argument: God is a being that has every perfection (by definition). Visibility is a perfection. God is not visible. Hence God does not exist. I consider this argument frivolous . . . but no more so than the original.
IV. Kalām Argument (from the article “Cosmological Argument”)
“1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause of its existence.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its existence.
4. Since no scientific explanation (in terms of physical laws) can provide a causal account of the origin of the universe, the cause must be personal (explanation is given in terms of a personal agent).”
Rebuttal: Among the classic logical fallacies is the appeal to ignorance, the assumption that a claim must be true if it can’t be shown to be false. The kalām argument employs a version of the appeal to ignorance, to wit: “We can’t explain it; therefore, God.” Which “reasoning” strikes me as transparently irrational, all the more so since the posited being would be even stranger and more wondrous than the world, and, correspondingly, even more in need of explanation, but even harder to explain, thus, far from solving the problem, actually enlarging it. What’s wrong with the simple, elegant, intellectually honest “I don’t know”? And just because I don’t have an explanation, doesn’t mean I must accept YOURS as reasonable, or that the burden shifts to me to disprove it. If I can’t find my car keys, and you propose that an invisible elephant came into my house and stole them, and I reply, “That’s ridiculous”; you can hardly expect me to feel obliged to retract my derision of your theory, upon your rejoinder, “Then where ARE they?!”
Epilogue: “Supernatural” is a word we use in connection with the mysterious to enable ourselves to feel as if we understand it. Of course, our ignorance is thereby just compounded; because we still do not understand, only now we THINK we do.
– Richard J. Eisner (8/31/2008; 1-818-343-0123; rjeisner@ix.netcom.com) -
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Re: Can one rationally convert to a religion?
Sat, November 8, 2008 - 2:51 PM[Typographical note: This web site does not accommodate italicization, for which I will substitute CAPITALIZATION.]
God is traditionally conceived of as possessing ultimate, absolute power. But a conscious being is contingent, not logically necessary (there is a possible world without awareness). As to any given contingent being, a greater creature is theoretically possible, one that could deceive and manipulate the lesser one. Thus (absolute) knowledge; (absolute) free will; and omnipotence, are impossible. (And, of course, insofar as these traits DEFINE God, GOD is impossible.)
– Richard J. Eisner (11/8/2008; 1-818-343-0123; richard@1800suethem.com) -
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Re: Can one rationally convert to a religion?
Sun, May 24, 2009 - 11:00 AM[Editorial note: This entry is my 8 November 2008 item, above, rewritten.]
On the Impossibility of Knowledge, Free Will, and God
Only a conscious being can have knowledge (or free will or be a god); and a sentient being is contingent, not logically necessary (there is a possible world without awareness). As to any contingent being, a greater creature, one that could deceive the lesser one, is theoretically possible. Ergo, an entity cannot tell whether any belief is not a deception; and thus (propositional) knowledge is impossible. Moreover, because free will presupposes knowledge (to have absolute volition in doing an act, you must know what act you do), and knowledge is impossible, so is free will. And, insofar as knowledge and free will define God; God, too, is impossible.
– Richard J. Eisner (5/24/2009; 1-818-343-0123; richard@richardeisner.com) -
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Re: Can one rationally convert to a religion?
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 4:53 PMThis is an interesting point. Could even a God be absolutely certain that he is not being deceived by another being capable of deceiving him?
I don't see a self-contradiction in the notion of a being who in fact has knowledge of every true proposition. and had a 100% reliably accurate method for having that knowledge. In fact, such a power of detection seems to follow the notion of omnipotence. If so, then such a being would know if there was another being trying to deceive him.
Simply being a being whose existence is contingent doesn't entail that there could be a greater being in every possible manner. A being could have a logically maximal quality while at the same time maintaining an existence that is contingent. For example, I have the logically maximal ability to be myself. Even though my existence is contingent, that doesn't entail that there could possibly be a being with a greater ability to be me. Such a being is logically impossible.
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Re: Can one rationally convert to a religion?
Fri, June 26, 2009 - 4:43 PM"As to any given contingent being, a greater creature is theoretically possible, one that could deceive and manipulate the lesser one"
That doesn't follow. Just because a being is contingent doesn't entail that there could be a greater one. For example, Suppose I score 100% on a test in school. No being could logically have scored a greater percentage of correct questions on that test. However, I am a contingent being. It doesn't then follow that since I am contingent, then therefore there could be a greater test taker in another possible world who scored a higher percentage on the test, since that's logically impossible.
Similarly, if God is omnipotent in the sense of being able to bring about any state of affairs the description of which is not self-contradictory, then there could not be a being with more power. God's power could be necessarily maximal even if his existence is not necessary.
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