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Hey everyone, this is the topic for this Sunday's gathering in Santa Monica at 2pm (on 11-11-07; see the event listing nearby on this tribe page). Here's the "official" wording of this topic, which was the winner of the vote by email this week:
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WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE IRRATIONAL? When you get the impression that someone is acting or being “irrational,” what exactly do you mean? What are the different meanings of “irrational?” What are the different categories of “being or acting irrationally?”
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I hope to see you there! Whether or not you come to Sunday's meeting, feel free to carry on a discussion by posting your own ideas here, either before or after the meeting.
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WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE IRRATIONAL? When you get the impression that someone is acting or being “irrational,” what exactly do you mean? What are the different meanings of “irrational?” What are the different categories of “being or acting irrationally?”
-----------------------------------
I hope to see you there! Whether or not you come to Sunday's meeting, feel free to carry on a discussion by posting your own ideas here, either before or after the meeting.
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Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Fri, November 9, 2007 - 3:58 PMOPTIONAL READINGS: note that our discussion focuses on the topic rather than specifically on the readings. However, if you'd like to read something to inspire and stimulate your interest or thinking on the matter, or clarify the ideas and debates involved, I have two good articles for you. Read or skim either of the following articles, or both if you're really motivated.
1. "Rational Irrationality"-- in TMP online, The Philosophers' Magazine, is a very short article on a few categories of irrationality. It's at www.philosophersnet.com/magazi...cle.php
2. "Practical Reason"-- from our usual source, the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, is a good but longer article that's written in an academic, technical style. It isn't precisely on the issue of the various of types of irrationality, but it goes deeply into a number of kinds of irrationality as it talks about theories of how it is that we reason about the actions we do or might engage in. You can find it here, plato.stanford.edu/entries/...l-reason/
As always, feel free to read or skim the above articles, or not, or anything else on the matter you find. Most importantly, come to our discussion and/or post to this thread your own ideas, musings, questions, and paper on which to jot down your thoughts! Make a list for yourself of the different meanings of being or acting irrationally!
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For those interested, here are the full vote-by-email results:
1) What Does It Mean To Be Irrational? (27.5 Votes)
2) Is Science Converging Upon The Truth, (22.0 Votes)
3) Is It Possible To Be Rationally Persuaded To Convert To A Religion? (16.5 Votes)
4) What Does Psychoanalysis Have To Say About A Rational Approach To Ethics?: (16.25 Votes)
5) Are Deaf Parents Morally Obliged To Cure Their Deaf Children With Cochlear Implants? (8.0 Votes)
(You may have noticed that the votes do not come in whole numbers. This is not because fractions of a person turn in votes, but because you receive one vote for your top choice, a half vote for your 2nd choice (if you had one), a quarter vote for your 3rd choice, and so on.) -
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Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Fri, November 9, 2007 - 4:07 PMHere's one of the abovementioned articles on the matter:
Rational Irrationality
Alfred Mele
One way to improve our understanding of some things is to figure out why they malfunction or break down. For the most part, that has been my approach in previous work on rationality. I have been especially concerned with breakdowns in belief and action. Here I concentrate on belief.
Thomas Gilovich reports that a survey of people who teach at universities “found that 94% thought they were better at their jobs than their average colleague.” Are university teachers exceptional in this regard? Seemingly not. Gilovich also reports that “A survey of one million high school seniors found that […] all students thought they were above average” in their “ability to get along with others” and “25% thought they were in the top 1%.” Obviously, if the respondents are being sincere, a great many of them are overestimating themselves.
Is there anything irrational in Alan's believing that he is more congenial than 99% of his peers when, in fact, over 20% of his peers are more congenial than he? According to one conception of rational belief – call it the evidential conception – it is a truism that rational belief is appropriately based on at least the readily available evidence. If Alan's belief about his congeniality is not so based, it is not a rational belief from the perspective of this conception.
Statistics of the kind I mentioned indicate that we have a tendency to believe propositions that we want to be true even when an impartial review of readily available data would indicate that they probably are false. A plausible hypothesis about that tendency is that our wanting something to be true sometimes biases what we believe. To the extent that a belief is biased in that way, it is not appropriately based on evidence.
In an interesting study by psychologist Ziva Kunda, undergraduate subjects read an article alleging that women are endangered by caffeine and are strongly advised to avoid caffeine in any form, that the major danger is a disease closely associated with breast cancer, and that caffeine causes the disease by increasing the concentration of a substance called “cAMP” in the breast. Because the article does not personally threaten men, they were used as a control group. Subjects were asked to indicate, on a 6-point scale, how convinced they were of the connection between caffeine and the disease and the connection between caffeine and cAMP. Women who drank a lot of coffee (heavy consumers) were significantly less convinced of the connections than were women who drank little coffee. The men were considerably more convinced than the female heavy consumers. And there was a much smaller difference in conviction between men who drank a lot of coffee and men who drank little (the heavy consumers were slightly more convinced of the connections).
Given that all subjects were exposed to the same information and assuming that only the female heavy consumers were personally threatened by it, a plausible hypothesis is that their lower level of conviction is motivated in some way by their wanting it to be false that their coffee drinking has endangered their health. Indeed, in a study in which the reported hazards of caffeine use were relatively modest, female heavy consumers were no less convinced by the evidence than were female light consumers. Along with the lesser threat, there is less motivation for skepticism about the evidence.
How do the female heavy consumers come to be less convinced than the others? One testable possibility is that because they find the connections at issue personally threatening, these women (or some of them) are motivated to take a hyper-critical stance toward the article, looking much harder than other subjects for reasons to be skeptical about its merits. Another is that, owing to the threatening nature of the article, they (or some of them) read it less carefully than the others do, thereby enabling themselves to be less impressed by it. In either case, to the extent that the women's beliefs are shaped by what they want to be true rather than being appropriately based on the evidence, these beliefs are irrational, according to the evidential conception of rational belief.
If motivationally biased beliefs of the kind I have been discussing are irrational, should we try to avoid all of them? Not necessarily. There is a phenomenon called “depressive realism”. Depressed people tend to be significantly more accurate about their positive and negative attributes than do people who are not depressed. Whether depression is a cause of the accuracy or the accuracy is a cause of the depression is an open question. But should you want to cause yourself to be depressed so that you can be more accurate about yourself or work hard to be more accurate about yourself at the risk of causing yourself to be depressed?
On many topics, a bit of self-overestimation is harmless and even useful. One potential effect of your overestimating your congeniality is your being more outgoing than you would otherwise be, making more friends, and having a better time socially. That sounds good, not bad. Similarly, a potential effect of my overestimating my teaching prowess is my feeling more at ease in the classroom than I otherwise would, with beneficial consequences. Of course, if I think I'm doing a superb job when in fact I'm boring my students to tears, I have little incentive to improve – a bad thing. But there is a difference between modest and massive self-overestimation.
If it is not true that we should try to rid ourselves of all of our motivationally biased beliefs about ourselves, are they really all irrational? Well, it might be that some irrationality is permissible and even helpful, and because it is, we have no obligation to root it out. Also, in the grand schemes of our lives, with all we have to do, is it really worth the time and trouble to bring into conformity with the facts our beliefs about how intelligent, attractive, likeable, nice, amusing, and so on we are – unless we seriously misestimate these things and that causes us significant problems? Surely, most of us have better things to do with our time.
Would it be irrational, then, to try to rid ourselves of as many of our irrational beliefs about ourselves as we can? If so, are we stuck with a paradox? Here we come to practical rationality and irrationality. According to one conception of practical rationality, it is rational to do what you, on the basis of good reasons, believe it best on the whole to do. (It may be rational to do other things too, when you have no belief about what it would be best on the whole to do in your circumstances.) I have suggested, in effect, that, for many of us anyway, including me, it would be best on the whole to refrain from trying to eradicate all of our irrational beliefs. I believe this – and for good reason, I think. Suppose my reasons are, in fact, good. Then, according to the conception of rationality now in play, it is rational of me to refrain from undertaking this project.
There is no paradox in this. Beliefs and actions are two very different kinds of thing. Because that is so, what justifies the judgement that certain of your beliefs are irrational might not also justify the judgement that it would be rational for you to act in such a way as to eradicate those beliefs.
Suppose you learn of a kind of psycho-surgery that enables people to bring all of their beliefs about their positive and negative attributes into line with the facts. Suppose you also learn that only this psycho-surgery would eliminate all of your biased beliefs about yourself, that it is very expensive, and that it would probably cut ten years off your life. Would it be rational for you to sign up for the surgery? Obviously not.
Suggested reading
How We Know What Isn't So , T Gilovich (Macmillan)
Irrationality , A Mele (Oxford University Press)
Self-Deception Unmasked , A Mele (Oxford University Press)
Alfred Mele is William H and Lucyle T Werkmeister Professor of Philosophy at Florida State University -
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Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Fri, November 9, 2007 - 4:18 PM...And here is the opening section of the other reading I listed above, the one from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
plato.stanford.edu/entries/...l-reason/
Practical Reason
First published Mon 13 Oct, 2003
Practical reason is the general human capacity for resolving, through reflection, the question of what one is to do. Deliberation of this kind is practical in at least two senses. First, it is practical in its subject matter, insofar as it is concerned with action. But it is also practical in its consequences or its issue, insofar as reflection about action itself directly moves people to act. Our capacity for deliberative self-determination raises two sets of philosophical problems. First, there are questions about how deliberation can succeed in being practical in its issue. What do we need to assume — both about agents and about the processes of reasoning they engage in — to make sense of the fact that deliberative reflection can directly give rise to action? Can we do justice to this dimension of practical reason while preserving the idea that practical deliberation is genuinely a form of reasoning? Second, there are large issues concerning the content of the standards that are brought to bear in practical reasoning. Which norms for the assessment of action are binding on us as agents? Do these norms provide resources for critical reflection about our ends, or are they exclusively instrumental? Under what conditions do moral norms yield valid standards for reasoning about action? The first set of issues is addressed in sections 1-3 of the present article, while sections 4-5 cover the second set of issues.
1. Practical and Theoretical Reason
2. Naturalism and Normativity
3. Reasons and Motivation
4. Instrumental and MaximizingRationality
5. Consequentialism, Value, and MoralReason
Bibliography
Other Internet Resources
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Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Thu, December 25, 2008 - 1:23 PM[Typographical note: This web site does not accommodate italicization, for which I will substitute CAPITALIZATION.]
Practical reason is defined as the mental processes involved in determining what one is to do. But actions are not objectively right or wrong, or true or false. Therefore, because the conclusion (action) cannot be (objectively) incorrect, the process generating it cannot be (objectively) irrational. Practical deliberation is NONRATIONAL; it can meaningfully be characterized as “rational” or “irrational” only INFORMALLY.
– Richard J. Eisner (12/25/2008; 1-818-343-0123; richard@1800suethem.com) -
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Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Sat, December 27, 2008 - 3:10 AMRichard, I'll agree with you only by half. The notion of rationality is *different* when applied to beliefs as opposed to actions.
A rational *action* is most commonly defined (in the literature on the subject) as an action that effectively and efficiently brings about the goal (that is, the goal that the person is aiming at by that action). In that sense, an action can either be "incorrect"/ irrational or "correct"/ rational, or alternatively, rational to a greater or lesser degree. This way of talking also accords with everyday speech; we often talk about crazy, irrational or stupid actions as being those that don't even come close to getting the actor to the goal he/she thinks it will.
The standards you are talking about, true v false, apply to matters of *theoretical* reason (reasoning about beliefs) rather than *practical* reasoning (reasoning about actions). "Truth" simply doesn't apply to actions, except in a metaphorical sense. It is a "category mistake," as philosophers often say, to apply the standard to truth to how good an action is, just as it would be a category mistake to apply the standards of "effective and efficient" to how good a belief is. -
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Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Sat, January 24, 2009 - 1:00 PM[Typographical note: This web site does not accommodate italicization, for which I will substitute CAPITALIZATION.]
Brian, I agree with you that actions are not true or false. But they are often described as right or wrong. My point (in my 12-25-08 comment) is simply that, because an action cannot—TECHNICALLY—be wrong, it cannot—TECHNICALLY—be irrational; that “rational” and “irrational” apply to ACTIONS, only INFORMALLY . . . or in EVERYDAY SPEECH.
– Richard J. Eisner (1/24/2009; 1-818-343-0123; richard@1800suethem.com) -
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Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Wed, February 4, 2009 - 6:27 PMOh, I think I still disagree with you on that one, for the same reason I stated in the last posting. Don't you think it counts as being "technically" wrong and irrational if an action does not effectively and efficiently lead to the goal it's intended to bring about?
Since "effectively and efficiently bringing about the end" is the (or *a*) formal definition of a rational action, the previous sentence would seem to follow. When philosophers talk about such definitions, they mean them formally, not metaphorically. What would be the point of talking about them metaphorically, anyway? Philosophy, by its nature, tries to formally define whatever it can, and to analyze and clarify metaphors by replacing metaphorical ways of talking with literal, technical ones.
If you want to dispute above definition ("effective and efficient"), that's a different argument. However, if you accept any definition at all of "irrational act," that will serve as the criteria of what counts as whether (or to what degree) an act is rational or irrational.
On the other hand, if you refuse to accept *any* definition of "irrational act," then I agree with what you said (though your point follows only trivially, in that case). But, if you refuse to accept any definition for rational or irrational action, then you fail to account for the way people (philosophers or anyone else) talk about irrational, stupid or crazy actions. You also deprive yourself of the ability to judge or make sense of how good, useful or reasonable an action is (except in the moral sense).
Of course, in the moral sense, actions can be termed right or wrong, but that's another matter entirely, and I don't think you meant that. -
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Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Wed, March 18, 2009 - 4:00 PMPractical rationality is doubtful, for these further reasons. You define such a quality as: effectiveness and efficiency in accomplishing a goal. But the distinction between ends and means in this context is artificial. Actions are part of life; to compare alternative actions is ultimately to compare different ways life, or a segment of life, might go, and these are ends, our choice of which, none being inherently preferable to another (intrinsic value is unreal), is finally subjective and arbitrary. Consider a student trying to get to school on time. We might judge his taking the scenic road there unfortunate for him if it makes him late for class—but fortunate if it also later inspires his creation of a great painting, or just gives him a sufficient amount of pleasure. Moreover, even internal or temporal consistency is illusional. Every instant, a man confronts continually and unpredictably altering outward circumstances, with a swirling inward mix of his fluctuating needs, wishes, tastes, abilities, energies, values, self-image, ideals, sense of duty, and sundry other elements, many of them subconscious, intuitively and spontaneously. Overriding purposes, such as artistic productivity, may influence the broad outlines of his life, but not necessarily his moment-to-moment, day-to-day conduct; like a compass heading or star, determining the general course or direction in which he strives to advance, but not his particular, often circuitous, meandering route.
Lastly, practical reason presupposes free will (our deliberately causing results). As I have argued elsewhere, however, free will is impossible. Hence, practical reason is likewise impossible . . . strictly speaking.
– Richard J. Eisner (3/18/2009; 1-818-343-0123; richard@1800suethem.com) -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Tue, March 24, 2009 - 1:59 PMYour idea of rationality would seem to be the same as Brian's: "the devising of means to attain ends." You then say that the distinction between ends and mean is artificial, because means themselves have immediate and direct effects that may be unrelated to the ends to which they are directed, whether or not those ends are realized.
Regarding this, I would point out that these more direct effects do not nullify the ability and attempt to devise means to attain the intended ends, and so, this point that you raise does not seem to prove that there is no rationality.
You also say that no ends are inherently preferable to others, but then you describe a particular outcome (of taking a scenic route) as "fortunate," while another outcome is seen as "unfortunate." Wouldn't a fortunate outcome be preferable to an unfortunate one?
Even if it were true that no ends are preferable to others, it would not be relevant to the question of whether means can be devised to attain a particular ("good" or "bad") end.
I do agree with you that "internal and temporal consistency" (and hence, causality) are human constructs superimposed upon a more organic and holistically-organized plexus of relationships. And rationality itself, since it has such a strong dependency upon causality, is also such a construct. Rationality is an abstraction created for purposes of prediction and control, and it can work fairly effectively to attain such ends, in part *because* it ignores the rich diversity of existence in favor of its manipulation-oriented abstractions.
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Re: What does it mean to be IRRATIONAL?
Sat, April 25, 2009 - 4:00 PMCarl’s criticism (3-24-09) of my 3-18-09 argument is well taken, on several counts. To start with, my attempt to negate the distinction between ends and means is problematic, in that, in this connection, speaking of choosing among ends (as I also do) is conceptually equivalent to speaking of means to ends. Which leads to the main point. My thesis was that, since intrinsic value is impossible, no end is inherently preferable to another; hence our choice of ends is ultimately arbitrary. And a decision process generating arbitrary outcomes cannot technically be irrational. Carl writes, “Even if it were true that no ends are preferable to others, it would not be relevant to the question of whether means can be devised to attain a particular . . . end.” Given the separation of ends and means, Carl is right. The proposed definition of rationality concerns, not the selection of ends, but the selection of means—in relation to given (even arbitrarily chosen) ends. My position was, perhaps, like a denial that a rifleman can be considered a bad shot, on the grounds that the targets he misses are not worthwhile targets. My arguments on this topic missed the mark.
Still, I hit an adjacent, if more modest, target, in the form of the related topic: Is practical rationality about ultimate ends, or only means? (My answer: Because no end is intrinsically preferable to another, our election thereof is finally arbitrary. And since an arbitrary election cannot technically be irrational, practical rationality cannot involve the choice of ultimate ends.)
– Richard J. Eisner (4/25/2009; 1-818-343-0123; richard@1800suethem.com)
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